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At the top here are short bits of advice on how to shop and how to buy safely & wisely:

Here is a list of more links for puppy buyers:

The "CHECKLIST" is directly below:

A DANE BUYER's CHECKLIST: Below are the 10 basic "mental" necessities to safely buying a puppy that help you sort thru breeder hype to find the real caring & able souls. Also FindaPup has a list of buyer's help & What Kind Of Breeder? is a good, short list of breeder categories. If you are thinking of breeding read A Dane Breeder's Checklist; and The Breeder's Corner has a lot on the topic of what makes a Great Dane (or breeder<G>) "real" and gives you the skills to start to be able.

There are lots and lots of people with pups for sale. Despite all the hoopla about "show" vs. "pet" breeders, good vs. bad, Euro-vs-American Style, PMers and BYBers, from a buyer's standpoint (who simply wants a good dog to love) it comes down trying to figure out who has what you want and has what they say they have. This "buyer's checklist" was meant for that, & it's more a "contrast and compare" document, than "check off these things" when buying. First and last, remember ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS! Judge a breeder by what they do with the dogs, not what they say to you. It's a lot easier to be a good salesman than a good breeder.

WHAT A SALESMAN SAYS vs. WHAT AN ABLE BREEDER DOES:

1. They say: "We breed for temperament (or size, or color) as we know it's what you are looking for!" vs. someone who spends time documenting what their dogs can do/are and who preserve breed traditions (vs. offer for sale what is trendy). People who who make claims noone can check on, who exaggerate their claims ("our dogs are like no other!") and talk too much (and in vague terms<G>) about how good their dogs are ("we strive for the highest quality!" "we have the greatest temperaments".."the longest lived"..) usually do so to get dogs sold. Not all are mercenary (just out for bucks): in fact many are nice enough, just too green or uneducated to be breeding and so don't know what they claim is standard issue for the breed. They are impressed with what really doesn't amount to anything special & so they have low standards. This should worry you, just like those people who compare themselves to bad breeders ("we are not a puppy mill," "our dogs get loving care..are raised indoors, with family"..etc.) are worrisome as such claims suggest very low standards indeed! Salesmen are always trying to find a slant ( "Designer Colors!," "Color pure!" "European-bred!" "Bigger than average!") that they think YOU think is meaningful so you'll buy. Committed breeders stick to the facts and keep their focus and offer you meat, not sauce.

2. They say: "Our dogs come with full guarantees to insure your buying satisfaction!" vs. someone whose dogs have OBJECTIVE health checks (e.g. recorded for example in the OFA database for hips) & other real proof of a good breeding program. If they claim they are doing "genetic" checks, well why not let others in on what their checks are all about and how they turned out? Buyers, do ask to see the records, don't just listen to claims! VISIT OFA & look for the dogs! And don't be taken in by "comprehensive guarantees." Guarantees on pups will never take the place of certifying adult health & temperament; documentation matters more than any guarantee out there. Guarantees on puppies are just there to satisfy worried buyers; letting experts check out the adult dogs you plan to breed is the real business of sincere breeders. The focus should be on guarding the breed's health, not customer satisfaction; on adults, not babies. Besides, realistically noone with a pup for months (or even days?) is going to really WANT a replacement: how can you really replace a cherished pet?. When you ask "what about genetic testing" or about hip exams, it's a salesmen who say things like: "we don't do that as AKC doesn't require it," or "my vet can tell about the hips when doing a regular check-up," or "the guarantee I give runs to a year and you'll know before that if the dog has hip dysplasia" or "we guarantee no genetic problems!", these are definitely not good answers to what were good questions BTW. Good breeders have better answers, not "better" guarantees.

3.They say "Ours are UNIQUE (in some way--claimed biggest or odd colors or rare bloodlines, etc). vs. someone who, quietly shows you their good dogs & their dogs' *real* accomplishments, and someone who lets you judge for yourself (because their dogs (& this breeder<G>) ARE good enough to sell themself. If you need a shouting sales slogan and a snow job, well, you either are too new to know better, or too wise about what you have really got and know you've got to push to get it sold. Also responsible breeders do NOT offer "rare" or unusual colors (or traits) as valuable, or say they sell at "reasonable" (read cut-rate) prices for "the loving owner," sell papers seperately, charge more for you to breed the dog, etc. el. at. In fact any website focused on cute puppies and centered on customer satisfaction is spending too much time on litter sales and not enough time on breed betterment. Breeders who are "plugged in" and know their peers are watching "can't go here": they speak softly and are modest in their claims. Besides, they don't NEED to push sales, as their pups sell by word of mouth as a rule. They say their dogs (they hope) are as correct as possible, (not perfect or the best). They offer the dog's record as a testimonial to his quality: (they don't say things like "everyone loves our darling BigGuyDawg," or "our StudleyBoy is the Greatest!") --see the difference in vocabulary? The knowledable speak facts and leave the "gush" out of things. They don't want to sell emotionally and they don't want you to buy emotionally. Well-bred litters are sold quietly and carefully. So consider just who and what is for sale otherwise?

4. They say: "We breed for longevity and health... for loving temperaments...massive bones and blockheads....true European style...designer colorss...10 generations color pure!" vs. someone who know their pedigrees and their pedigrees show you something about their dogs (not just names on paper). Again, watch for the sort who offer buzz words & is usually looking to hook the first time (or newer) Dane puppy buyer. The nicer sort of breeder offers "show and tell" to you, not a sort of shouting about claims that the educated breeder takes for granted ("gorgeous type!" "fantastic temperament" "great kids' dogs!" ), or advertises traits not correct for the breed anyway (like "designer" colors or "blockheads" ugh-in a breed that is supposed to have a long, lean head). Saying it's a big deal to you ("Ours are Raised with Loving Care in Our Home!") to do what a good breeder takes for granted should be a red flag to a buyer. It usually just means that this sort of breeder doesn't have anything else to offer the buyer. What they hope is you WON'T KNOW how little they are offering.

5.They say: "We love pet buyers and we let pet buyers have lots of choices!" vs. breeders who car for the breed and their puppies by carefully analyzing and sorting their litters (starting with what they are going to KEEP!), and so only offer to you for sale what they think will really suit you (and focusing on what's the best fit for the pup in question). Now here is one of those naked sales techniques it's still amazing so many fall for it! How could a breeder put customer satisfaction over the proper sorting and selection of a litter and really have the breed's best interests at heart? Or the litter's........or even the pup's? Ummm....they can't? Either the pup's needs or the buyer's demands have to be a priority. In a seller's market (which is the case with GOOD pups), why would they need you so badly to have to fall over themselves to please you? That should make you wonder. Breeders, when reputable, are usually swamped with buyers, uneasy with strangers, don't like to talk money or promise pups at first, and want to go slow when it's about sales. The dogs, after all, really ARE their "babies" to protect & they do so by their ACTIONS. All this talk of "adopting" puppies to people who pay for them actually, while going on how much they "love their babies" doesn't jive with trying to sell to you from the minute they meet you (or having PayPal buttons)! If "the customer comes first," then the dogs come second. So when friendly sales to pet owners is the breeder's focus, that eager buyer should beware.

6.They say: "We don't breed for profit; we love our dogs and want loving homes like you!" vs. someone who put their money where their mouth is and SPENDS money on their dogs (doing everything from OFA xrays to paying "show"costs & training fees). How can buyers believe a website with PayPal, Visa and Mastercard isn't focus on sales? How can buyers believe it's not about money when the website for the breeder has pups and sales policy front and center, with all that talk of non-refundable deposits, publically pending sales ("congrats to the Jones family!"), and policies on how you order up and buy a pup. It's too much like a pair of shoes: "tell me the color, size and style you want & what you are willing to spend."? Besides puppy buyers shouldn't ever "buy" the line that "pet" breeders (that do not exhibit/'show" their dogs) are not making money on puppy sales? Just quickly do the math, folks. It's a cottage industry where a profit is simply assured if breeding out of your backyard. From the bottom up, here we go. It doesn't matter if you sell "AKC pups" from a couple of local dogs or from a slick internet site with a full customer service package and sell in the range of show prices (or just undercutting them usually to pull in buyers), without OFA-style health testing, attending seminars, going to shows/trials, etc. you cannot HELP but make money having litters. The pet breeder choses Danes (typically colors there is a demand for) because it IS going to more than pay it's way. Most of these folks with their own stud dogs and "girls" at home can easily supplement an income byt $10,000 or more in a year, and some, once set-up, can make more than most waitresses, many entry level folks, and lots of other honest workers. Anyway you slice it, there is a lot of profit for these folks claiming they are breeding for "the love of the breed" isn't it? Easy to love a thing that's making you $5,000, $10,000, even $20,000 or more a year doing no more than letting "nature take it's course"? True breed love is the hobby breeder who sinks $5,000-15,000 in the breed each year--whose dogs live off them, not the other way around. Actions speak louder than words.

7. They say: "We breed for quality, not quanity, and only have a couple litters a year," vs. someone who shows you they are spending time on the dogs and getting titles, certifications, etc. while letting the "quality" largely speak for itself. And do the math? Once again, someone who pays no show fees, stud fees, advertising fees, health cert. fees, etc. doesn't need to breed often to stay in the black in their little on-line cottage industry. Being a stay-at-home breeder means, however much you sell, you are making money. A good second income can easily be made with a website, a couple of bitches, and a great sales pitch to the buying public; you don't need a lot of dogs. So being a small kennel doesn't make you a good kennel, although it might well mean you are a "BYBer" (back-yard breeder). And practically every BYBer sort of website starts off with this assurance they breed for quality, so it's as meaningless, really, as saying you breed for "type, temperament and health" and so on. Buyers should be worried about the quality of the dogs here, as well as how often these animals are indiscriminately inbred, as the breedings are done for convenience & cost-effectiveness, not quality.

8. They say: "Shows are about things you don't care about, show dogs are sickly and mean, show people are mean and hateful," vs. the average working stiff of a show breeder who spends thousands every year trying to get the job done right. Are all "show" people wonderful people and are all "show" dogs great dogs? No, of course not, but they are all involved in an enterprise that has everything to do with preserving the breed, and nothing to do with preserving their own profits, that's for sure. And they are doing it where YOU can see it and their dogs and compare them yourself.....you'd think the safety this brings a buyer alone would make them all rush to breeders that exhibit their dogs to the public! And the only way TO lose money breeding dogs is to "show" (compete with) them--it's otherwise, by definition, pretty profitable. Nothing like club fees and donations, breed and training seminars, handling and training fees, hotel, resturant and gas bills to eat away at that litter's profit margin. So "showing" is putting your money (literally) where your mouth is. As for temperament and health, of course there will always be a few dogs who have to be "professionally managed," but nothing takes the place of having to have your dogs well brought up enough to go out in public in close quarters with 100s of others dogs, stand travel and strange beds, late nights and other schedule upsets, then get up and perform in public, and have to be ranked against the dogs of other breeders. How's that for demonstrating you have solid health, good temperament and proper type in your breeding stock? Certainly that breeding pair who's lived their lives in someone's backyard or who are "best in couch" cannot claim they've undergone the same sort of rigorous testing for temperament and stamina. And if your dogs fail to please when shown, or you are a nut, well, everyone knows it.

You think for that reason alone, the buying public would DEMAND all breeding dogs are exhibited in public, as who can say really what the situation is when all you've got is the loving owner's claims about their dogs? All the info that's inevitably available on show dogs can be used...or used against them. And the show ring is a crucible of pressure that can proves health, temperament, and type when used right. Not to mention it shows committment. Sure people can do silly things there, people do silly things everwhere. But people who dodge the demands of showing/trialing/health-certifying while breeding dogs are not fooling wise heads. Despite all their chat, the real reasons these "independent contractors" stay at home to breed are pretty obvious. It increases your profit & leisure time, keeps you from the hassle of having to keep up and compete, while it decreases your chances someone outside of your breeding program is going to be able to assess your dogs. Showing dogs can be a drag & drive a breeder nearly nuts, but the breed needs this sort of forum. It could be done better, but, however it's done, it's got to be there for breed safety. Got good dogs? Fine. Prove it. Go out and compete against others who claim their dogs are good enough to breed. And shouldn't the puppy buyer support the breeder who supports the BREED, not just their own breeding program?

9.They say: "We can offer you many satisfied customers, just look at our happy puppy buyers!" vs. someone whose PEERS (other breeders and other people committed to the preservation of purebred dogs) will recommend them. Any breeder can offer up a few of their buyers who'll tell you to buy from them. Their vet likely will to. And their neighbors (well some), most of their family, and their moms. But it's not about having your friends like you, it's about others out there who respect you. And if independent people who understand what a breeder does to and for the breed cannot recommend a breeder, well......silence isn't golden. And remember, time is no necessary teacher. People can be "in the breed" and selling puppies for many years (& even decades), offer that as a selling point even, but it doesn't necessarily say anything more than they've gained a strategy to stay in business. We all know people who are "30 years in..."..whatever and aren't experts or who haven't improved in years. You can keep making the same mistakes, or the same mediocre dogs, year after year....<G>as long as you can find buyers.

10.They say: "We are proud members of the local Nonsequitor Association, the Distant-from-us Club and the AKC," vs. a breeder offering REAL affiliations like the local, regional, and national breed and dogsport clubs. Here's another sales tactic buyers should be savvy to. NOONE belongs to the AKC guys. Only clubs can be AKC members, breeders CANNOT. And it matters not that you belong to the Rotary club or even sat on your local humane society's board; this doesn't tell anyone about your skills as a breeder as noone in such organizations likely understands how to judge a breeder. And how about people who only belong to clubs so far away noone ever met them? This all seems just sales tactics to make a breeder who doesn't really HAVE any valid credentials look real?

The biggest problem with buying dogs is people are not well armed with good information. But the answer is not to try to know more than the seller (you cannot) & you don't need a ton of specialized information, you need good common sense and you need to put your thinking cap on. How do you select a pediatrician or a mechanic? How do you tell if a dentist or a decorator knows their stuff? How do you keep from being snowed by an insurance or car salesman? Use those same skills to buy a dog. And PLEASE KNOW that you the buyer need to be the sleuth and seek out good breeders! Do not advertise expecting them to come to you. You need to do the leg work and make the calls. They should respond politely, but they will not be seen "chasing" buyers, and anyway, usually have a nice list of savvy folks who've learned already how to get first pick of the best of the litters.

Bottom Line: SALES FOLKS STAY AT HOME & TALK: GOOD BREEDERS ARE BUSY OUT WORKING ON THEIR SKILLS. That's what the good quality breeder is hoping you will see....amidst all the noise. So consider the old sayings about "putting your money where your mouth is" and "who talks and who walks," next time you are out thinking about buying a dog. Educate yourself about what *really* counts when breeding dogs. And remember, if the focus is on the buyer, then the focus is off the dogs!

WANT TO KNOW "THE" SECRET TO BUYING SAFELY?

TRY THIS "SAFETY NET" APPROACH TO PUPPY BUYING:

Spend 6 months and visit at least 6 shows/trials, talk to at least 6 exhibitors/breeders at each event and visit at least 6 breeders at their homes WITHOUT ASKING AFTER PUPPIES. Learn the breed and the breeders around you before falling for some small bundle of love.

Remember the puppy maxim: BUY IN HASTE, REGRET AT LEISURE.

To end up happy NEVER pick newborn pups, wait until they are at least 6-8 weeks old, and in the meantime:
A. Pick THREE THINGS you MUST HAVE in a pup & be specific (like must be tolerant as I have many active children).
B. Pick THREE THINGS you MUST NEVER see in the pup (like must not be too pushy as I have limited experience with big dogs).

Choose your puppy (in consultation with a dedicated breeder) on PERSONALITY FIRST once the pup is old enough to be up and walking and interacting with it's littermates. See these links for more help:

http://www.nwk9.com/dehasse_pupdev.htm

http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/BuyersGuide/Puppy_Aptitude_Test.htm

DOG SHOPPING IN THE 21st CENTURY: Online breeders are a potentially dangerous way to purchase a dog, a sort of "super classified" full of strangers who may often be better salesmen than superior breeders. There are some "red flags" to look for to help you avoid the worst sorts, but the problem is, anything you are reading to educate yourself, breeders (of all kinds) are reading too. Website therefore ending looking a lot alike, but that doesn't mean "this" breeder offering mentorship and limited registration does it with the same reasons or same ability as "that" breeder. So when purchasing a puppy try to stick with people who you can get a PEER recommendation from (anyone can find a few puppy buyers or even a vet to say they are okay). This generally means stay with club and show people who have a public reputation you can check on, who have signed some sort of Code of Ethics that makes them accountable, and who let others breeders, their peers see and who can judge what they do with some expertise. And consider the internet is the 21st century big'ol newspaper in the ether--a dangerous way to shop for a dog. Use it to contact breeders, but then HAVE CONTACT with them-actually interact with them and their dogs. Buying dogs from strangers is dangerous & made worse when you have no first-hand experience of the dogs/people. So if you now can see how buying from across the country can be a worry, consider just how dangerous it is for anyone but the experienced breeder to import a Dane? There is no way you can know anything about the dogs from a country you have never been in, let's face it.

You want the parents and the family of your puppy to be documented as to health, type & temperament. This means something more formal and documented than promises a breeder makes (that you as a buyer are asked to take on faith). Non-profit foundations like OFA are set up to provide a professional and independent record of health issues, and organizations like the AKC offer exhibition and competition for breeders who wish to make various claims about their dog's abilities & traits. Why settle for the assurances of a stranger; make the breeder prove their claims. This generally means titles and certifications, records kept, a reputation earned, and other respectable Dane people who will PRAISE a breeder. We generally fall silent when faced with a breeder we cannot feel good about, so silence in dogs ISN'T golden. We all end up knowing (or knowing about) each other; it's a small world; and reputation is everything. There is no "Doggie U" and no "State Board of Breeder Examiners," learning here is done by mentorship and largely only if the person is self-motivated. And remember, big or small, been doing this 10 years or 30; good, bad & indifferent breeders come in all shapes and sizes. Smaller numbers may not mean anything but lesser quality, and being in the breed a long time may mean nothing but the breeder hasn't learned a thing in 3 decades (except how to keep selling pups). And having their "own line" may just mean nothing more than noone else knows about the troubles they've seen!

So look for documentation about the family of the puppy rather than promises about the puppy itself. Anyone can say they give guarantees with a puppy, but they mean little to nothing on their own. First off only the adults surrounding the puppy actual have more to offer than "a promise" when it comes to health, temperament or type. Secondly "guarantees" can be a cheap way around doing "your homework" and proving the dogs you own are really worthy of being bred. Instead of checking on the traits of the parents, you just assure a buyer "everything is guaranteed" and when something goes wrong, promise a replacement. That sounds reassuring until you stop and think about it? What buyer is likely to give up the dog they have loved for months (or have it euthanized) to get a new one? And even if that isn't required (which it often is), the arguments over guarantees go on forever, so you may never see that replacement when the problem is determined to be *your* "fault." And anyway you may not want a pup from that same someone once you are actually in need of a replacement? So it's unlikely many dogs, no matter how horribly dissapointing, ever get replaced. Even if you do get a replacement, having to do this too often suggests sloppy management? And a focus on guarantees often speaks more to an "easy come, easy go" attitude than real responsibility as a breeder. You want a breeder who wants you and the puppy they sell you to be in their life for a decade, not someone who smiles as you hand them cash, and then the honeymoon is over with the first question you have. Buying a good dog is hard work; breeding a good litter is tough to do. Caution needs to be the watchword of all conscientious buyers and breeders, not "we can always get another."

Well-bred Dane puppies cost $1000.00 or more these days. That is before transportation and often before cropping. And you can expect to pay out
at least $500 that first 6 months, plus that again by the time the pup is a year old. So a Dane is a fairly large investment, especially a young one.
Ironically price has little to do with quality. Bad or good, great or just mediocre, pups are sold based on what the market will bear. And the going rate reflects the marketplace therefore more than the realities of breeding. Most dedicated breeders are lucky if they ever break even on a litter, nevermind have the dogs pay for themselves. Like a loving pet owner, a conscientious breeder's dogs live off them; they don't live off the income the dogs bring in. "Cut rate" puppies are typically from animals that are kept as minimally as possible and as scant an investment as can be made is put into them to be able to maximize profit. The result is these cheaper puppies are from cheaply made litters, but where the breeder can expect a profit every time. In fact an extra $5-15,000 income is made by such folks from just a litter or two a year! Ironically that's the amount of money the average "real" hobby breeder PUTS into the dogs each year, not expects FROM them. So consider who you are buying from when listening to claims and to prices; consider what that breeder is doing for the breed, not just for the buyer? In the long run what they do *TO* the breed is affecting what you can buy.

Also don't forget about rescue? Rescues come usually spayed/neutered (if old enough), have all their shots, have have a vet check-up and a temperament and training evaluation and, with scrupulous rescue (there are bad rescues like there are bad breeders), they will stand behind the dogs forever and be honest with you about the dog's traits. These animals cost little to acquire. The donation asked is usually $150-300, depending on the outlay the rescue has made. Often the dogs make good pets. They end up in rescue simply as the family who bought them really wasn't ready to have a Dane, which usually just means they bought from a breeder who didn't screen buyers properly. It's saving a life and it might well also save you money, if that's an objective.

Getting an older dog is a much safer way to buy a Dane on a budget than purchasing the usual Dane puppy for sale under $1000!

And in this breed color has a lot to do with the cost of the puppy as outlined above, plus color matters in many other ways. There are three color families of Danes: fawn/brindle, black/blue and then Harlequin/Mantle. THere are color "rules" about breeding choices, and most of the rules are based on sound breeding priniciples no matter what you have heard & so are time honored practical guidelines if not moral precepts. (If you want to read more about the genetics of color, go back to the ChromaLinx where there are two entire sections on color genetics.) Fawns and brindles are the color family most commonly bred in "nice" circles, followed closely by black Danes, with fewer educated and able people breeding the blue and the Harlequin families (called "AOAC"--All Other Acceptable Colors--which says a lot right there). Harlequins are not bred with these other solid colored Danes (black, blue, fawn, brindle), and in Harlequin families we can get a "rainbow" of colors in a litter: a typical litters has blacks, black & white Danes (Mantle, mismarked black, piebald), white Danes (and many of these are deaf and/or blind), merle Danes (silvery grey with black patches and white markings), and Harlequins, and you can see blue, fawn, brindle (all with white and various patterns) as well. So you are dealing with seperate pedigrees and seperate sets of breeders with each color, and each color family therefore has seperate issues. Fawns are the most popular with reputable breeders so the most plentiful. They don't have the hardships that come with trying to breed good AOAC Danes. To read more about the perils of trying to purchase in AOAC, click here.

Buyers, not clubs, not the AKC, not the need for dogs, actually largely control the system of pup production in the USA. Breeders are actually CREATED by the potential for sales in dogs. And the breeders that the public often create are made by how they, as buyers, prioritize their wants. Most puppy buyers start off just wanting a breeder to offer a kind face/voice, a few promises that ease their worries, pups that are reasonably priced and available. So that's what breeders who get in dogs with an idea to sell pups know they need to provide...this is so little and it doesn't translate into having a happy and healthy pet.

An estimated 2 in 3 purebred dog purchases seem to end badly, for all they started well enough. It takes more to make good pups and to take care of the breeds over the decades and even centuries, than offering cute, clean pups for sale. But it's understandable that buyers mostly are wanting nothing more than a nice family pet are not thinking about all these other issues. And that's fine, but ask yourself: Who *IS* minding the store.....the breed....when all these folks are focused on puppies? Look at that breeder for a moment as who they are to the breed?

I wish more buyers looked at buying a dog like a learning experience, a trek through breed history, as then maybe more would look to find people to consult with (not just buy from)? They might then find not just people with pups for sale, but those who are dedicated to the breed, and who could act as experts to guide them (just as these same folks guide the breed). I wish it was easier to tell "good" breeder from "bad," but , somehow, the very able and ethical doesn't often look much different from the smiling puppy salesman to the average sincere buyer. In a maze of pups being bought and sold, the breed seems to get lost. Since buyers control such a large part of the production of dogs in the USA, we all need to stop and think about where this is taking us? Please support the breed you love by supporting the breeders who love that breed.

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