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BLACK, FAWN & BLUE: color gene interaction in solid colored
Danes.
TO See the various outcomes that can occur from breeding
black Danes, CLICK HERE.
Here are a few simple facts about "how" black and/or blue Danes produce fawn puppies & other such
issues amongst these three colors of Dane:
1. For all fawn *appears* to be a solid color, "genetically speaking" it's a pattern. And so it's recessive
to any "true" solid color (black, blue, brown, or "Drapp" called lilac).
2. Any solid dog (blue, black, brown or whatever) can carry fawn (or brindle for that matter)--and many black and
blue Danes do. So any such solid dog can produce fawn (or brindle) puppies when bred to another fawn/brindle carrier.
Solid dogs are often called "self-colored" in breeders' terms.
3. Any normal fawn (black mask) can carry blue, brown or other such "pigment recessives." Any time two
such carriers meet, blue (or brown/chocolate, etc.) fawns can result. But no fawn x fawn (or fawn/brindle or brindle/brindle)
can produce a self-colored (solid) dog. They lack the gene that codes for a solid coat, so it's simply impossible
for them to have *solid* colored (blue, black, brown, etc.) offspring.
4. Any and all pedigrees in the Great Dane can ultimately carry color recessives. This means fawn/brindle carries
blue & sometimes brown, black/blue can carry fawn at least, maybe brindle or brown too, and Harl/Mantle can
carry several of these recessives simultaneously. It doesn't matter if it's been 2 or 10 or 200 generations since
the dogs were "cross color bred," the possibility still exists that color recessives are still there.
And any time two carriers of a single recessive meet there is a 1/4 chance of seeing offspring in the unanticipated
color. (Plus 2/3s of the normal colored littersmates then carry these same "unexpected" colors.) Color
itself, taken alone, isn't a deep indicator of the ability or honesty of the breeder in question or speak directly
to the merit of the pups, for all "rainbow litters" can suggest other problems exist beyond color issues
& many careless Dane breeders routinely ignore the traditional color family segregation in breeding Danes.
And, as to color, generally the most important thing about it is to track it accurately in your pedigrees and know
enough about how it's inherited to maximize the percentage of standard colored puppies in your litters.
There are traditionally 3 color families in the Great Dane. Originally these were blue, black/Harlequin and fawn/brindle.
Black has "drifted" (at least under the AKC) standard out of the Harlequin family (where now our "harl
blacks" are shown and bred as Mantles), and is typically now (in AKC Danes) bred to either blue or fawn/brindle
Danes. And now one sees these two traditionally seperate soild Dane color families (blue and fawn) bred to each
other usually through the medium of black Danes. There is some use to this gene flow from color family to color
family, but that's another topic and related to the merits of outcrossing. And for all there is large and loud
discussions of the ethics of cross-color breeding, keep in mind there is real practical value of keeping in to
a single color family in Danes: the more you "stay within the (color) lines" the more likely you are
to have pups of expected and showable colors & that means you can spend your time and energy as a breeder on
more important issues than "paint."
Genetics in this sense is about "upping your odds" as to producing suitable animals close to the standard and in accordance with the history of the breed. So pedigrees that are well-marked for such unwanted recessives (& breeders well informed about their pedigrees) are more valuable than many breeders appreciate in tracking the potential to produce (& so predict and even avoid) any unwanted recessive. However any animal can produce "color pure" for 10 generations and then "suddenly" produce a recessive, so it's not sensible to condemn a breeder based merely on the production of the odd recessive. That is a simply a genetic and biologic fact that is inescapable & a matter of the odds just catching up with you. It would be smarter for us to all use our energies to mark our own pedigrees than to point fingers as others? And don't forget we can now test for the blue (and the brown/chocolate) gene, as well as the mask and the merle gene...and more such testing (fawn, brindle, black, Harlequin) is on the horizon. So test if you have a question--don't guess, so you don't have to apologize or explain afterwards?
**Testing for blue, brown (chocolate) & masking available: See Healthgene or VetGen.
Note testing here for "homozygous black" means documenting the dog does not carry fawn or brindle. To test for the blue recessive (or any other recessive) requires a different test, as these recessives are on different gene. In the strictest sense of the the term, "homozygous black" would be a dog tested for, so proven to NOT carry ANY breed color recessive. Hoever each breeder may use the term "homozygous black" to mean different things. So ask.
5. Anytime a typical (homozygous) blue is bred to a typical
(homozygous) fawn, the resulting litter will be ALL BLACK: all of the pups. And every single puppy born to such
a breeding then will carry BOTH the blue and the fawn recessive. This should be noted on resulting pedigrees; breeding
blacks carrying fawn and blue is an issue every Dane breeder needs to be thoughtful about--nevermind upfront with
others involved with the dogs in question. That's not as these genes are "sins,"but as such information
is power, and we should all be given the power of the known & relevant facts when producing litters. Carefully
controlling unwanted recessives is a chore for every breeder, not to mention there are worse recessives than blue
and/or fawn to carry? So it's important to put this color issue in perspective. And we all need to understand that
reducing the odds of producing unwanted recessives (of any kind) is one thing; eradication the genes that produce
them is another. It's not necessary, it's not even desirable (if in the process you inadvertently select for even
worse traits), and anyway it is unlikely to be ultimately even possible. But if no animal ever produced "in
the flesh" has the unwanted recessive trait of concern, then it's anyway not a practical issue for any actual
dog.
6. Any Dane litter that has blue, fawn and black pups must have ONE BLACK or ONE BLUE PARENT (IOW one *solid* parent
is needed to have solid colored offspring). In the case of one black parent, the other parent could be blue or
fawn. Both parents then carry the recessives they don't express. IOW the black carries for blue AND fawn. The other
parent, if blue, carries fawn; if fawn carries blue. If the one parent is blue, the other fawn, then the fawn carried
blue and the blue carried fawn. Normal fawns have black pigment, so "lend" this gene to the offspring,
while the blue parent "offers" a gene for a solid (self-colored) coat, thus "recreating" black
pups.
7. There are two recessives here. One is a gene that produces blue vs. black pigment. One is a gene that produces
a solid coat vs. a coat that can have a pattern to it (fawn and brindle are technically patterns). These two genes
"live" on seperate places in the genome, so are inherited seperately & produce different, individual
effects. Think of it like two guys with two seperate jobs. One guy's job is to be sure the dog is either "painted"
all one solid color or be allowed to show a pattern like fawn and brindle. The other guy's job is to paint the
dog with either blue or black pigment. The first guy only says WHERE the dark pigment will end up (all over or
confined to certain areas) & the 2d guy only worries about if he's got a can of black paint or only blue paint.
8. Any dog with a blue parent carries blue. And any dog with a fawn parent carries fawn. Anytime fawn and blue
puppies are produced in a litter, then both parents have fawn and blue genes (whatever color they are). And, again,
a black dog can carry blue _and_ fawn; a fawn dog can carry blue; a blue dog can carry fawn. Above you can insert
"brindle" in anywhere the word fawn is. So here is offered a start for all to (please!) accurately mark
your pedigrees.
9. Two recessive parents cannot produce a dominant. Which means two blues cannot make black pigment as neither
dog has a gene for black. And two fawns cannot produce a solid (self-colored) dog (blue or black in color) because
fawns lack the gene for producing a solid coat.
10. The "black from fawn (or blue) mystery" is a myth. This notion surfaces from time to time & is
discussed over & over, often with wild speculation taking the place of common sense. There are several ways
you can end up with reported black pups from fawn parents, (or black pups from blue parents), but it's simply impossible
that two fawns or two blues produced black puppies in this breed. However that doesn't mean people haven't _seen_
black pups born to a reported pair of fawn or blue (i.e. I am not<G>calling anyone a liar<G>). The
most common reason this actually occurred is a 2d sire exists and/or a sire of the litter is undefined (i.e. a
mistake about the sire has been made). (That can be cleared up using the AKC DNA parentage program.) Another common
reason this is reported is people are not completely familiar with what young pups look like (i.e. mistake blue
for black or fawn for black), or the parents/offspring haven't been seen but in photos, for example, and are mistaken
for a color they are not. This all happens a lot more than people realize: nothing travels faster in the fancy
than a wild rumour about a weird color of dog.
Knowing what color a dog *really* is is just not all as straightfoward as people imagine, & if you expect to
see one color and not another, are unused to seeing a lot of varieties of color, it's easier than people think
to be mistaken about the color/pattern of a dog. I've seen a "chocolate" Dane called fawn, for example,
and a brindle merle called chocolate, nevermind people routinely confuse merle, white, harl and mantle, and brindles
for fawn or black, blues for black, blues for lilacs and so on. These are every day errors for anyone but the most
experienced person who can actually *physically examine* the dog (& his haircoat), so don't take reports of
weird colors at face value, folks. Now there _is_ a form of black recessive to fawn, but it seems to exists exclusively
in certain herding breeds (e.g. GSDs). There is also a way to make a "synthetic" black, using a "gundog
red" (<ee>) dog like a Golden Retriever or Irish Setter mated to a fawn-colored dog. But both cases
are really all irrelevant to color in purebred Danes. And "a strange mutation happened to me"<G>
just isn't a suitable explanation, as the rule of science (as well as common sense) is you don't reach for the
most unlikely explanations when many more common and (logical) explanations are to hand. The odds that a puppy
from two fawn parents is black, for example from some "unique mutation," is as remote as the moon and
the stars. To make such a claim really requires the claimant to *PROVE* a more "normal" explanation doesn't
apply (i.e. doing gene and parentage testing). But the chances that human error in the identification of parents
and/or progeny is the real problem is good enough to<G> be something we can all bet on?
Here is a 2004 article that discusses color genetics
practically from a Dane breeder's perspective.
Here is a more technical article that includes
even the latest published 2006 updates.
NOTE PLEASE: The above is a pretty casual response to some recent repeated questions and was written up at the
request of Solvi Nordin. It's intended to help<G>clear the smoke and make the facts apparent to all who need
to know them to breed Danes well. It's NOT about taking sides in any color debate or meant to lend support to ANY
party in any personal feud. I will try to edit this into a more formal article soon, but repeated requests for
this information led to my posting what is essentially still "under construction," please note. Do use
the links noted, and particularly the first one, which shows various outcomes in breeding solid Danes, can be helpful
to breeders.
Best regards, JP Yousha
CHROMADANE
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